jmantoothwriter

My story "The Water Tower" just went live at Fantasy. Here's a link, if you would like to give it a read:

http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=4346

I'd love to hear what you think, so use the comment feature at Fantasy or leave a note here.

Also, check out the podcast:

http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=4387

My writing group had the pleasure of chatting with Nick Mamatas last night. He was a great guest who had a ton to say about writing, publishing, MFA's, and his brilliant short story collection YOU MIGHT SLEEP. I'm jealous of him for two reasons: his ability to type so fast and that he does not, I repeat, does not revise his stories. If you don't read his blog, you might be the only one. Links below:

Nick's blog
http://nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com/

Chat transcript
http://snutchlabs.wordpress.com/

Erik Williams is a good friend of mine. He's in my writing group, Snutch Labs. That's the disclaimer. But even if he wasn't, I would promote his stuff because it's good. Heck, you don't need me to tell you, he's everywhere these days. The thing that is most impressive about Erik, I think, is that he's young, yet also extremely dedicated to his craft. I envy him for both of those things. Here's where you can find him (like I said, he's everywhere):

Issue 7 (and the first print issue) Necrotic Tissue is available and features his story Restaurant Talk. Find it here: http://www.necrotictissue.com/subscriptions_O.html

Polluto 5 features his story Silent Treatment. Grab it here: http://www.polluto.com/issues.htm

And if all of that isn't enough, his novella Gone The Day is making quite a splash on Amazon as a Kindle download:

http://www.amazon.com/Gone-the-Day-ebook/dp/B002D48LGQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246293102&sr=8-1

He also maintains a pretty active blog (wish mine were that active) at: http://erikwilliams.blogspot.com

Now go check him out.

This is from my YA novel tentatively titled THE SLIP.

It's a very short section from the beginning:

Three weeks after the trial ends, I wake up to a noise below my window.  Like almost every other time I’ve been awakened since the disappearance of my mother and sister, there is an instant where they are not gone, and I am a normal boy, and my life has not taken a turn for the worse.  It’s like waking up in a cocoon; first you’re just awake, insulated by the silk around you.  Thing is, the silk is just imaginary, and as your eyes adjust, it vanishes.  That’s when the world knocks you right in the mouth.  

Fully awake, I slide out of bed and over to my window.  There’s a wind blowing across the cotton fields and the big oak tree in front yard throws shadows across the yard.  Leaning forward a little more, I see Harold Pike dragging his oxygen tank up our front steps, his long, stringy hair flying wild in the wind, a burning cigarette clutched tightly between his knuckles.  He climbs the last step and puts his tank down near the door.  Shaking the hair from his face, he pulls the apparatus from his nose and the cigarette glows hot orange as he takes a hit off it before dropping it on our porch and grinding it out underfoot.  

Three loud knocks followed by a silence that makes me feel uncomfortable, edgy.  Far away, somewhere near town, maybe, I can hear a big rig shift gears.  Closer to home, the cicadas murmur.  Then, the sound of Dad’s bare feet across the hardwood.

Ellen Datlow has announced the semi-official order of the stories in the upcoming Haunted Legends antho:

I'm kind of giddy about this.

"Introduction: Saying Boo" Nick Mamatas

"Knickerbocker Holiday" Richard Bowes

"That Girl" Kaaron Warren

"Akbar" Kit Reed

"The Spring Heel" Steven Pirie

"As Red as Red" Caitlín R. Kiernan

"Tin Cans" Ekaterina Sedia

"Shoebox Train Wreck" John Mantooth

"15 Panels Depicting the Sadness of the Baku & the Jotai" Catherynne M. Valente

"La Llorona" Carolyn Turgeon

"Face Like a Monkey" Carrie Laben

"Down Atsion Road" Jeffrey Ford

"Return to Mariabronn" Gary A. Braunbeck

"Following Double-Face Woman" Erzebet YellowBoy

"Oaks Park" M.K. Hobson

"For Those in Peril on the Sea" Stephen Dedman

"The Foxes" Lily K. Hoang

"The Redfield Girls" Laird Barron

"Between Heaven and Hull" Pat Cadigan

"Chucky Comes to Liverpool" Ramsey Campbell

"The Folding Man" Joe R. Lansdale

__________________________________________________

In other news, I defend my thesis today. I'm a little nervous about it, but I keep remembering what a friend told me: "They're your stories. Nobody knows them better than you." I hope she's right. :-)

My story "Halloween Comes to County Road Seven" went live today at Thuglit.

Check it out: http://www.thuglit.com/zine/thug31/thuglit31.html

I finally finished my thesis, a collection of short stories called SHOEBOX TRAIN WRECK. Thanks to my writing group Snutch Labs for all their help. Thanks also to my committee chair and advisor, Larry Wharton.

Here's the TOC:

Slide- this is a highly autobiographical story that won the Barksdale-Maynard award for fiction

Chicken- this one appeared in the first issue of GUD (Greatest Uncommon Denominator). You can read it here:
http://www.gudmagazine.com/vault/fwibble/0/Chicken

Saving Doll- this story used to be "The Nature of Power." Totally revised now. Still unpublished.

Halloween Comes to County Road Seven- I've been trying to find a home for this one since I wrote it in 2005. After probably thirty revisions, it finally found a home at http://www.thuglit.com/home.html --It should be live soon. Speaking of Thuglit, they don't pay, but they do give you a t-shirt. I got my yesterday. Badass.

Highway Noise- used to be "On the Mountain" which was published in Shroud. I like this version a lot better though.

The Water Tower- this one will appear in Fantasy Magazine (http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/) in the fall. It's a surreal tale about some kids who find something strange in an old water tower.

Litany- published in Shimmer. It may be the oldest story in the collection, but it holds up pretty well, I think. It received a year's best honorable mention from Ellen Datlow a couple of years ago (2006, I think).

Shoebox Train Wreck- this one will appear in 2010 in the Datlow/ Mamatas anthology from Tor called Haunted Legends.

I've got two or three more stories that are probably good enough to go in the collection, but they didn't really fit the tone and theme of my thesis which is basically Southern Gothic, redemption through violence, type of thing. One day, I hope I can get this baby published, but it seems all the publishers these days are closed to submissions. Must be the economy. Anybody got any suggestions?

Paul Tremblay stopped by the Snutch Labs last week for a chat. I knew he was a great writer because I'd read some of his short stories and The Little Sleep, but what I wasn't prepared for is that he's also a hell of a nice guy. He talked about The Little Sleep as you might expect, but he also played along with the shenanigans my group has been known to engage in. He also bragged about being the best speculative writing basketball player on the planet, though fellow Snutcher, Sam W. Anderson's told me the same thing before. Maybe they can go one on one. No offense, Sam, but my money's on Paul. He's got the height advantage.

If you haven't read The Little Sleep, go buy a copy and get started. The novel is well-written, insightful, and frequently hilarious.

As for future chats, we've got Peter Abrahams (Stephen King calls him his favorite suspense writer), Jack Ketchum, Joe Lansdale, and Nick Mamatas. Should be a fun summer!

A little personal news, while I'm here. I won the Barksdale Maynard fiction award at UAB (where I'm working on my Master's) for my story "Slide." 200 dollars and publication in Aura, the university's literary zine. I also found out my story "Halloween Comes to County Rd. Seven" has been accepted at Thuglit. Don't know when it will be up yet, but in the meantime, check out their site:

http://www.thuglit.com/

Oh and I almost forgot--check out the chat with Paul Tremblay here:

http://snutchlabs.wordpress.com/

Sold "The Water Tower" to Fantasy Magazine. They have a great new submissions system that let's you always see just where you are in their queue. It's fast too. I got my acceptance in five days.

This particular story has been rejected a few times, and I was beginning to think (like a lot of my stories) that it was a good story that just didn't fit anywhere. Glad, I thought to send it to Fantasy.

Last night my writing group, Snutch Labs, hosted Tom Piccirilli for an online chat. He was a great guest, offering thoughtful, intelligent replies to all our questions.

Check out the transcript here:

http://snutchlabs.wordpress.com/chat-with-tom-piccirilli/

Who are your favorite writers? Right now. List five.

I'll go first:

William Gay (he's got a new one coming out in April or May, I think)
Ron Rash (One Foot in Eden blew me away)
Peter Abrahams, the Echo Falls Mysteries (http://www.peterabrahams.com/)
Ray Bradbury (my wife got me his 100 best stories for Valentines Day)
James Lee Burke- hardboiled poetry

I'm the wookie.

Do you wanna mess around?
I mean deep down in your bones
In hotel swimming pools
On public telephones

They're tearing the Buick City Complex down
I think we're the only people left in town
Where are you gonna move, Where are you gonna move?
Do you wanna mess around?

- The Old 97's

Just heard that song and felt like posting since I love those words.

That's all.

Kurt Dinan is a good friend and and a hell of a writer. Check out his latest offering up at Chizine:

http://www.chizine.com/nub_hut.htm

You won't be disappointed.

2008 was weird for me writing wise. On the one hand, I managed my most impressive sale (to Haunted Legends). On the other hand, I often felt as if I was floundering with my writing. Part of this (I think) is that I am beginning to move away from writing horror. The best story I wrote this year probably won't get published because it's purely a literary story, and I don't know those markets very well.

I also wrote about seventy thousand words of a novel during 2008 and then quit just as I was nearing the end. That was dumb. My first resolution of the new year is to get that thing finished. You know the mantra- "It may suck but at least I finished it." But here's the thing. I actually like great whacks of it. So with some rewrites, it could be okay.

I still suck at this livejournal thing, but maybe I'll make a resolution to post more and make friends or whatever you do to get people to read your LJ. Or maybe not.

I've got several stories out there right now at markets like Crazyhorse, Interfictions II, Agni, West Branch, Saint Ann's Review, Broken Pencil, GUD, and One Story. There's some others, but I don't feel like going to duotrope right now to look. But if something gets accepted, Livejournal, you'll be the first to know.

I should be finished with my thesis/ collection in March. It's basically done already, other than some light revising.

Some random thoughts:

Peter Abraham's Echo Falls Mysteries are incredible. I know they're written for kids and the the protagonist is a thirteen year old girl named Ingrid, but I don't care. I love his characters like real people. His latest, Into the Dark is the best so far. Going to give one of his adult novels a go soon.

Finished Tom Franklin's Hell at the Breech not too long ago. Great book, but I still like his short stuff better. If you want to read a great collection, check out Poachers.

Been listening to the Silos a lot lately. Cuba is an outstanding record (can you still call them that?) I especially love "She Lives Up the Street," "Mary's Getting Married," and "Margaret."

Went to the lake with my writing group Sam W. Anderson, Kim Despins, Kurt Dinan, Petra Miller, and Erik Williams. We had a blast (and wrote some too).

I'm still working on editing and revising my thesis for my masters. Right now it's nine stories, most of which I kind of like, but all of which still need some work. After that, I'm going to try to find a publisher, and after that I'm going to write a novel about something, uh... interesting. Just haven't decided what yet.

Last night, I got an email from Ellen Datlow. My story, "Shoebox Train Wreck" will be appearing in the Haunted Legends Anthology edited by Nick Mamatas and Ellen Datlow.

I would write more, but I'm still a little stunned.

Here's the transcript from my writing group's latest chat with Tom Tessier. Ray Garton and PD Cacek dropped by as well.


ELWilliams.u says (02:02): Thomas Tessier is the author of numerous short stories and novels. Some of his best known works include the novels The Nightwalker, Rapture, Finishing Touches, Wicked Things, and Fog Heart, which was also nominated for the Stoker for Best Novel.

ELWilliams.u says (02:02): His short stories are just as well known and have appeared in such anthologies as Borderlands 3, Night Visions 9, and The Best New Horror 3 & 5.

ELWilliams.u says (02:02): His collection of shorts, Ghost Music: And Other Tales, is arguably one of the best collections of dark fiction out there today. Besides being a great writer, Tom's also a pretty cool dude and fun to drink and shoot the shit with.

petralee.u says to (02:02): Can vouch for that! :)

*** (02:02):Welcome to SNUTCH TALK LIVE! , RayGarton.u!

ELWilliams.u says (02:02): Hey, Ray

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:02): welcome, Ray!

RayGarton.u says to (02:02): Hi!

petralee.u says to (02:03): Hey Ray!~

kdespins.u says to (02:03): hi!

pdcacek.u says to (02:03): Hi Ray

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:03): Thanks for being here, Ray.

Tessier.u says to (02:03): Hi Ray.

ELWilliams.u says (02:03): Well, I'll ask the first queston:

RayGarton.u says to (02:03): Hello, everyone. And hello, Tom! Good to see you!

ELWilliams.u says (02:03): We, with the exception of Ray, are looking at making the leap from short fiction to novels. From your experience, what advice would you give to those of us who are beginning or about to begin the novel writing process?

ELWilliams.u says (02:03): And Trish, Too.

Tessier.u says to (02:04): Think more about the characters and their situation, where the novel is centered...

Tessier.u says to (02:05): ...a short story can be about any kind of thing, but a novel is a much larger whole, needs core characters and a governing focus.

pdcacek.u says to (02:05): I've just started a new one today. Basically I think of each chapter as a self-contained "story" which moves the "whole" forward. I also never start anything until I think it out all the way...then sit down and write the last line (so I know where it's going) :-)

Tessier.u says to (02:06): Ditto me, Trish, except about the last line part...

kdespins.u says to (02:06): So you outline before beginning?

Tessier.u says to (02:06): ...my last sections tend to come late to me. For whatever reason, I don't know.

Tessier.u says to (02:06): I don't write the kind of detailed outlines many authors do, but I accumulate...

pdcacek.u says to (02:07): I only outline in my head...never on paper. It's easier for me to change the minor bits that way.

Tessier.u says to (02:07): ...pages of notes relating to the characters, location, anything I want to remember that might be needed.

petralee.u says to (02:08): When you are writing novels do you tend to finish it first and then edit page by page? Or do you edit as you go?

RayGarton.u says to (02:08): I'm an accumulater, too, Tom. If I outline a book in detail first, then when I'm finished with the outline, I feel *done*.

pdcacek.u says to (02:10): To Petra: I finish the novel, take a deep breath and two days rest then start at page one and begin to rewrite.

Tessier.u says to (02:10):
Petra, I finish the first draft and then begin editing and rewriting. I think it's often a mistake to edit as you go, for some people anyway. It slows down that first rush, which you want to get all out and capture...

Tessier.u says to (02:10): ...it's easier to cut later than add later.

petralee.u says to (02:11): I try very had to do it that way! But damn, I find myself re-reading and going back. I have to physically stop myself! Second question - I have seen a multitude of writers switch pov's in the middle of their story. There has been many conversations between the six of us that it is a NEVER a no-no, and absolutely cannot be done, and et I

petralee.u says to (02:11): I mean is a no-no. and never should be done.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:12): I find this a gross exagerration of our conversations

petralee.u says to (02:12): And yet I find it so many times by established writers. Even at workshops we are told no, do not ever do it. So what gives? What's your take on that?

petralee.u says to (02:12): to sam. :)

Tessier.u says to (02:12): Okay, gimme a sec here...

Tessier.u says to (02:12): First, as the nuns used to say...DO stop yourself physically.

petralee.u says to (02:13): :)

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:13): HA

pdcacek.u says to (02:13): HATE the POV switch...but I see it, too. I learned (back when dino roamed the earth) this was THE BIG NO NO...but times change. I don't do it, but....

Tessier.u says to (02:13): POV, you're right, lots of people do it, and we all say you should never shift like that...

Tessier.u says to (02:14): Some VERY good writers get away with it, and a lot of not so good writers use it as a crutch, or out of laziness, whatever.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:15): That's a good way to put it.

petralee.u says to (02:15): I'm glad you two know what I am talking about - felt like I was going crazy!

pdcacek.u says to (02:15): Lazy? How lazy is it to put in a scene break and swith the POV to a new character?

Tessier.u says to (02:15): I'm guilty, though I do fight against it strenuously...I like the 3rd person because you can go in and out of a characters thoughts all the time and still keep your balance and distance overall. You have to work this out yourself, but try to stick to one POV most of the time.

RayGarton.u says to (02:15): I've never been one to attend workshops or creative writing courses, so maybe this totally off-base. But it seems to me if it works, it works, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work ... whatever the "rules" might be.

Tessier.u says to (02:15): Trish, yes, but that doesn't always work in certain scenes.

petralee.u says to (02:16): Yeah Ray, I've heard that too. But I also thought was okay to change scenes and then change pov?

petralee.u says to (02:16): That last question to Tom and Trish

RayGarton.u says to (02:16): So have I, Petra. :-)

pdcacek.u says to (02:16): It's hard, but I've rewritten scenes to make it work. It's just one of the little bugs I have

Tessier.u says to (02:17): Yes, Ray, but some readers do find their enjoyment marred by intra-scene shifts. Better as Trish said to change scenes and shift.

RayGarton.u says to (02:17): By the way, if I disappear abruptly, the power probably went out. It's 112 degrees and we're having rolling blackouts.

RayGarton.u says to (02:17): Yes, the intra-scene shifts are clumsy. I've done it, but I try not to.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:19): Setting - Tom, it seems, especially in your newer work (Wicked Things, The Woman in the Cable Car and even as far back as Father Panic)...

Tessier.u says to (02:19): club car

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:20): You've made your setting a more prominent player in your fiction - almost a character...Is this a consious decision? And can you talk a little about your strategy of setting in your work

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:20): And it is Club Car...I'm a horrible person'

pdcacek.u says to (02:20): Yes you are

petralee.u says to (02:20): yeag, you suck!

RayGarton.u says to (02:21): Whatever the thinking behind it, Tom, your settings are always vivid and beautifully rendered.

petralee.u says to (02:21): I mean, yeah

Tessier.u says to (02:21): I think I've always had a strong interest in settings...

Tessier.u says to (02:21): London in The Nightwalker was A LOT about the city itself, it's past and secret history, underground rivers, burial pits etc.

RayGarton.u says to (02:22): That was the first one I read -- and I thought you were British.

Tessier.u says to (02:22): And thanks for those words about it.

kdespins.u says to (02:22): ha! I did too

pdcacek.u says to (02:22): Fogheart is still my favorite.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:22): Agree with Trish

Tessier.u says to (02:24): Thanks Trish and Sam -- the pedant in me insists, it's Fog Heart.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:24): I mean I agree with Tom....Trish is a horrible person

RayGarton.u says to (02:25): This is not specifically a writing question, but ...

RayGarton.u says to (02:26): Tom, my memory is sometime faulty so I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember you telling me some years ago that FINISHING TOUCHES had stirred some movie interest. Have I been hallucinating?

Tessier.u says to (02:26): Quite possibly, but not about the movie interest...

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:26): HA

RayGarton.u says to (02:26): Ha!

Tessier.u says to (02:26): I've optioned that book countless times over the years, always a nice little check...

Tessier.u says to (02:27): but no one has ever been able to get anywhere with it, so it's still on the option block again.

RayGarton.u says to (02:27): Sounds like my experience with LIVE GIRLS. Many options that went nowhere.

Tessier.u says to (02:28): BTW< an option check every year or two is not a bad situation to be in with a book.

kdespins.u says to (02:28): I’m heading to Borderlands in January for the first time. I’m excited to be going and a little nervous at the same time. I want to go in prepared, so I can learn as much as possible in these three days...

kdespins.u says to (02:28): Can you give me any suggestions for preparing for the workshop and getting the most out of it both learning-wise and networking-wise?

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:29): Buy beer. It worked for Erik

Tessier.u says to (02:29): Rest up in advance and be prepared to work long hard hours, it's pretty strenuous...

Tessier.u says to (02:29): ...they will give you nightly assignments, quite apart from all the reading and prepping you have to do...

Tessier.u says to (02:29): ...I thought it was very well put together and enjoyed the two times I was there...

kdespins.u says to (02:30): I hear you won't be there this year. Right?

Tessier.u says to (02:30): ...was asked to be in January again, but couldn't do it.

kdespins.u says to (02:30): unfortunate for me

Tessier.u says to (02:30): Right, family vacation planned in tropical climes -- hope it snows in Baltimore!

RayGarton.u says to (02:30): One piece of advice -- if Monteleone's there, don't get him started on NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. :-)

pdcacek.u says to (02:30): Lucky you.

ELWilliams.u says (02:31): Ray, I will poke that bear

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:31): or Ted Sturgeon's penis

RayGarton.u says to (02:31): Ha!

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:31): Curious.. what does he say about No Country

RayGarton.u says to (02:31): Despises it.

pdcacek.u says to (02:31): Just bow and call him "Godfather"

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:31): and wear something low cut

RayGarton.u says to (02:31): And tell him you hope his first child is a masculine child.

kdespins.u says to (02:31): I can do those things

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:31): And don't worry about crying...he's used to it

petralee.u says to (02:31): Yeah.! he's very used to it.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:32): I witnessed that!

kdespins.u says to (02:32): Sam crying?

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:32): duh

petralee.u says to (02:32): It was a sad thing,

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:32): And "Amongst the Waliling Winds'

kdespins.u says to (02:32): it always is

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:32): god...you're an azzhole Mantooth

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:32): yep

*** (02:32):RayGarton.u quit the room

ELWilliams.u says (02:32): I guess Ray lost power

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:32): or hates us

ELWilliams.u says (02:32): both

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:33): Simple question. I think it applies to both novels and short stories. How do you know when something’s finished?

Tessier.u says to (02:33): Ach!

Tessier.u says to (02:33): ....

kdespins.u says to (02:33): great question, John

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:33): maybe not a simple answer though

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:33): loaded question, john

ELWilliams.u says (02:33): pure set up

Tessier.u says to (02:34): Go by gut, ultimately...

Tessier.u says to (02:34): Most of the time I've just had a pretty clear strong feeling that it was where it's supposed to end...

pdcacek.u says to (02:34): Honestly...and you know this...it's never finished. You can always write more or rewrite a piece. It's finished when you tell yourself it's finished -- or the best it can be, for the moment.

Tessier.u says to (02:35): I haven't really had to go back and change endings, after Nightwalker, which I did rewrite the ending of.

kdespins.u says to (02:35): I'm curious, what was the original ending?

Tessier.u says to (02:35): Never finished is right, Trish, but eventually we have to let the story/novel go.

pdcacek.u says to (02:35): I rewrote THE WINDCALLER because the first novel SUCKED!

petralee.u says to (02:35): You know, that's never been an issue for me - I always know when it's done.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:35): But the second was awesome!

kdespins.u says to (02:35): The version I read was good

kdespins.u says to (02:36): I liked Windcaller

pdcacek.u says to (02:36): Thank you

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:36): Yeah, it's just Sometimes, I've got myself revising and revising, and then one day I look back at an earlier draft and realize it might be better than the one I ended up with. Does that make sense?

Tessier.u says to (02:36): Kim, the original version had a kind of left-hanging uncertainty, with Bobby going off to carry on...

Tessier.u says to (02:36): and nothing really resolved.

kdespins.u says to (02:36): ah, I like the final ending

pdcacek.u says to (02:38): John--sometimes (not often with me) the first draft feels "better" because it was written in the joy of discovery. The other drafts are work.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:38): Good point.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:38): You definitely start to lose the joy after the third or fourth draft.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:38): Thanks
Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:38): Why does Mantooth's wife never know when he's finished

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:38): Okay. That hurt

petralee.u says to (02:38): What if you're writing a novel and you hate it all the way you go, but you can't seem to let it go either? what the hell do you do then?

Tessier.u says to (02:38): I think 90% of a book is in the first draft, the heart of it...

Tessier.u says to (02:39): ...after that comes to hard work.

petralee.u says to (02:39): Should you just trash it?

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:39): well, that's discouraging

petralee.u says to (02:39): Huck it?

Tessier.u says to (02:39): Petra...

petralee.u says to (02:39): burn it to a crisp?

Tessier.u says to (02:40): Put it aside,start something new. Or, push on at the risk of continual diminishing returns...

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:40): Finish the damn thing, Petra. Then you can burn it.

pdcacek.u says to (02:40): Petra: Put it away. Stick it in a closet and shut the door. Forget about it...except there will be some part of your brain that will be going over it and one day "it" will work. It's happened to me more than once (believe me)

petralee.u says to (02:41): Really? BEcause that's EXACTLY what I want to do with it!

Tessier.u says to (02:41): Or just take a breather and wait a few days/week tbefore taking another look at the WHOLE thing.

pdcacek.u says to (02:41): I burned a novel once...a romance. Nuff said.

kdespins.u says to (02:41): What if I'm just stuck or the story seems to fizzle. Put it away?

Tessier.u says to (02:41): Lots of good sentences and phrases get lost when something is burned.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:41): I've read your work Trish...I'm afraid a romance would just disturb me

pdcacek.u says to (02:41): Tell the story out loud to a friend...and it may correct itself once you HEAR it.

pdcacek.u says to (02:42): Sam, the romance scared ME!

Tessier.u says to (02:42): Yes, Trish!

petralee.u says to (02:42): See, it's easier to put away a short story than it is to put away a novel, do you agree?

kdespins.u says to (02:42): good idea. I'll give that a try

Tessier.u says to (02:42): Petra, absolutely.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:42): I like that idea Trish

ELWilliams.u says (02:42): I'm going to steal one of Sam's questions from an earlier chat: In general, what do you feel is the most common difference between a really good story and a professional story? Any dos and don'ts for making a story more in the professional vein?

pdcacek.u says to (02:42): It does work...there's something about hearing your work that stirs things up.

pdcacek.u says to (02:44): I've read a number of "professional stories" that have been just plain awful. Always write the best story you can and take your chances. A lot of the pro sales have to do with luck.

Tessier.u says to (02:44): A professional story can also be a really good story...it just depends on the writer, what they put into it...

Tessier.u says to (02:45): I kind of think of "professional" in terms of writers I don't erspecially enjoy...

Tessier.u says to (02:46): ...But there are also pros who are really superb...if the novel or story feels too calculated, chances are...

Tessier.u says to (02:46): the characters and rest of it just won't be convincing enough to make you think of it as a great job.

Tessier.u says to (02:47): Ed McBain -- a wonderful pro. Dean Koontz, never grabbed me.

ELWilliams.u says (02:48): Yeah, Tom, I know what you mean about Koontz.

kdespins.u says to (02:48): Let’s be honest, networking scares the crap out of me. For this reason, I’ve always aimed at being a fabulous writer, so I don’t have to network. Well, my theory seems to be bullshit. So, what’s the best way to network with established writers without coming off as a nervous schmuck?

pdcacek.u says to (02:49): Beats me. I still don't know how to network. I have gotten better at talking to people, but I generally talk about my friend's work, not my own. I'm a writer, not a marketeer.

Tessier.u says to (02:50): Kim, go to some cons if you want...I don't think networking has much to do with writing...

kdespins.u says to (02:50): I went to WHC last year. That's how I ended up with these people.

kdespins.u says to (02:50): (which is a good thing)

Tessier.u says to (02:50): Just write the best stuff you ca. Believe me, if it's good, people will compete to buy it.

kdespins.u says to (02:51): so, don't worry about networking?

pdcacek.u says to (02:51): And I do know the First Reader at Leisure Books. ;-)

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:52): So what grabs you Trish and doesn't let go?

kdespins.u says to (02:52): so, I just had this novel rejected by Leisure...

petralee.u says to (02:52): lol

Tessier.u says to (02:52): Uh-oh, over to Trish from Kim.

pdcacek.u says to (02:52): GOOD WRITING! You'd be stunned at how little I see.

ELWilliams.u says (02:52): So, here's a loaded question for Trish: how many make it through the slushpile? On average? Really any chance?

pdcacek.u says to (02:54): Last month I went through 76 mss... only six of which were horror (I also read thrillers, westerns, mysteries, everything but Romance) and only two made my "want to read more" list. To be honest I hate...

pdcacek.u says to (02:55): Vampires and zombies. BTW, zombies are going out (thank God). I'd love to see a really good horror novel where the author remembers that horror is an "emotion" and not the excuse for gallons of blood and guts. Yuck.

Tessier.u says to (02:55): Oh, thank you -- so right.

ELWilliams.u says (02:56): So demons are cool? Sweet.

pdcacek.u says to (02:56): And yes...there is always a chance.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:56): Curious, Trish (now that I know you are the reader!!)... Would Leisure look at something that was more southern noir/ gothic than traditional horror?

petralee.u says to (02:56): that's a BEAUTIFUL ANSWER!

pdcacek.u says to (02:56): Yes, indeed. I personally love southern noir gothic...but it HAS to have the feel of horror.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:57): Gotcha. Thanks.

Tessier.u says to (02:57): Another Borderlander, Rick Koster, writes wonderful southern noir...

Tessier.u says to (02:57): I think he a story coming out in DC soon.

Tessier.u says to (02:57): CD, I mean.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:59): Tom, in comments about an upcoming collection, you're critique was the writer should focus a little more on characterization...or so I hear. So, um..hints? Any techniques we should be looking at? Is there a way to tell if the character isn't well-rounded since we, as writers (ha), already no them and maybe aren't communicating who

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:59): they are clearly?

kdespins.u says to (02:59): you're?

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:00): I hate you

kdespins.u says to (03:00): no them?

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:00): Yeah, TOM IS CRITIQUE

Tessier.u says to (03:00): Sam, character is in the details about what they look like, what they say, how they feel, and of course how they act....
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:00): know them and maybe aren't communicating who they are

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:00): sorry...I suck

Tessier.u says to (03:01): More detail, the better. Without bogging things down...

Tessier.u says to (03:01): It tells more about a character when you describe how he touches a woman/child's cheek than a page of background history of his rough childhood.

pdcacek.u says to (03:02): Nice!

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:02): So, sorry John, my last critique of a Mantooth story was to try and build the character in the moment rather than through backstory...is this where we should be looking?

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:02): bASTARD

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:02): and I started that question before I got to read your response

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:02): I suck

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:02): still

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:03): and forever

Tessier.u says to (03:03): Let's all stop bragging.

ELWilliams.u says (03:03): Trish, want to take a stab at the characterization question?

ELWilliams.u says (03:04): Any tricks of the trade

kdespins.u says to (03:04): techniques for developing round characters

pdcacek.u says to (03:05): As I said, I think out a story (or novel) before I start, so I pretty much know my characters before I start writing them. In the new novel, I've begun with what might seem a "talking heads" shot--no names, but in the male's POV. I let "his" feeling of the woman he's with set her character...

pdcacek.u says to (03:07): and allow the reader to set "his" by the way he reacts and thinks. I like making the reader feel they're a part of the plot. I do put in physical details, but, again, generally though the eyes of another character.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:08): Good stuff, Trish.

Tessier.u says to (03:09): Ah, good. I don't think of this as technique, just a matter of feel, what feels right to me as I'm writing it, and later...

Tessier.u says to (03:09): what may seem still to e missing.

Tessier.u says to (03:09): be missing, Sam.

kdespins.u says to (03:09): so it comes through practice?

pdcacek.u says to (03:09): Everything does

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:09): I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING

kdespins.u says to (03:09): makes sense

Tessier.u says to (03:10): Yes, absolutely. I think writing is a lot like learning a musical instrument...the more you practice/do it, the better you will become at it.

petralee.u says to (03:10): When you pitch a novel, what makes them ask for the whole manuscript as opposed to just a few chapters? It sounds like the answer is obvious, but when a person's pitch sucks, it would stand to reason they would only ask for a few chapters instead of the whole thing.

Tessier.u says to (03:12): Petra, Trish can give you a better answer on this, since I've never pitched a novel, just wrote the damn things and then tried to sell them.

petralee.u says to (03:12): Very lucky for you! But I really wanted the experience, so I did it.

Tessier.u says to (03:13): If I had to pitch my peculiar stuff, I'd never get anywhere. Things are different now, I guess.

pdcacek.u says to (03:13): Don't play games like starting to tell the plot then saying "and if you want to know what happens, I'll send you the whole thing." I've actually heard this. Basically, tell the main plot, from A to Z, while hitting what you think are the high points...

pdcacek.u says to (03:15): And be as professional as possible. This is your job, remember.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:18): Erik's intro mentioned Best New Horror 3...

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:20): I know I asked you about how poetry has affected your work before, but that's where I discovered your work and Steve Tems (another former poet)...in looking at your past work and Steves, it seems to have a big influence...I'm interested in getting my feet wet...where do I start
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:20): BTW, Trish, BNH3 has an excellent Ed Bryant story, too

pdcacek.u says to (03:21): There was a young man from Nantucket

kdespins.u says to (03:21): ha!

pdcacek.u says to (03:21): Which of Ed's stories?

Tessier.u says to (03:21): Sam, just start writing it. But if you're really serious about it, read as much poetry as you can, to see what others have done...

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:21): Human Remains

Tessier.u says to (03:22): ...classics right through the 20th C. Poetry is not -- to me -- something where you just pour your feelings out...

Tessier.u says to (03:22): ...every word counts crucially. Just as you would...

Tessier.u says to (03:23): ...read lots of horror literature, you want to know poetry, how it works, what it can do.

ELWilliams.u says (03:24): Okay, well anyone want to put anything out there? Promote anything coming up?

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:24): Yeah, guys tell us about something you've got on the horizon.

pdcacek.u says to (03:25): Yes. Go to Amazon.com and order READ YOUR FEARS...it has a killer Tessier story and will help kids at Johns Hopkins.

Tessier.u says to (03:25): I'm pretty well along with a new novel, tentativelt titled -- and I do mean it is tentative -- The Banshee.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:26): What about you, Trish?

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:26): Any word on the short story collection, Tom?

Tessier.u says to (03:28): Sam, I still have stories I'm working on that I want to include, and I want it to be a bigger collection than I had previously planned. All is coming along well with it (and them), just more work to be done.

pdcacek.u says to (03:29): Well, it's been fun. Thanks for inviting me.

kdespins.u says to (03:29): Thanks for the chat Tom and Trish
petralee.u says to (03:29): I actually have to put my children to bed now, but it was great talking to both of you! Nice to meet you Trish! And always a pleasure talking to you Tom!

ELWilliams.u says (03:29): You're welcome, Trish. Thanks to both you and Tom for taking the time.

Tessier.u says to (03:29): Thank you all, it has been very good fun and talk.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:30): Thanks, Tom and Trish. Enjoyed it very much.

pdcacek.u says to (03:31): Okay, website www.pdcacek.com

Tessier.u says to (03:32): www.thomastessier.com

Tessier.u says to (03:34): Night all!

The other night I had the pleasure of participating in a chat with writer/ editor Brett Savory. Brett was funny, very smart, and an all around nice guy. In the chat, he talks about writers he admires, breaking the rules, and the secret to getting into Chizine. He also gave me permission to post whatever I wanted from the chat right here on my blog, soooo here goes:


ELWilliams.u says (01:57): First off let me introduce our guest

ELWilliams.u says (01:57): Brett Savory is something of a renaissance man. Not only does he have two novels and one collection of short stories published, but he also works as senior editor for Scholastic Canada, is Editor-in-Chief at ChiZine (for which he won a Stoker in 2000), is the publisher of ChiZine Publications and drums for the hard rock band Diablo Red. His short story “Messages” was included in the 2007 edition of The Year's Best Fantasy & Horror. He currently has three novels in the works: Running Beneath the

brettsavory.u says to (01:57): Skin?

ELWilliams.u says (01:57): It appears to have cut me off

ELWilliams.u says (01:57): A length limit I guess

ELWilliams.u says (01:58): Hold on

ELWilliams.u says (01:58): Running Beneath the Skin, Bottom Drawer, and The Soul Projectionists. He lives in Canada, so he’s agreed to only use small words and type slowly for our benefit.

ELWilliams.u says (01:58): Sorry

brettsavory.u says to (01:58): Ha! I dig the last part. :-)

ELWilliams.u says (01:58): Thank Kurt

JohnMantooth.u says to (01:58): welcome to snutch, Brett

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (01:59): Thanks for coming, Brett. Feel free to swear, drink, shoot up, or leave when you want.

brettsavory.u says to (01:59): Danke, folks! Nice to be here. Thanks very much for asking and inflating my ego. It needs that every once in a while.

ELWilliams.u says (01:59): Since Kurt won that Chizine contest, he's going to start us off with a question or two

brettsavory.u says to (01:59): Kurt: Can I do all those at once? Killer.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (01:59): I’m assuming from your publishing history of over 50 short stories published that you began with smaller pieces before moving on to novels. As all of us are moving in that direction, would you give us some idea of that transition from short stories to novels? When did you decide you were ready? Were there other novels before In and Down? From your experience, what advice would you give to those of us who are beginning or about to begin the novel writing process?

brettsavory.u says to (02:02): Yeah, I started with shorties, then moved to a novelette (the original incarnation of THE DISTANCE TRAVELLED, which was about 15K), then finally went to my first novel, which was IN AND DOWN. It was 86K, but i chopped it down to about 73K by the time it was published. I'm a fan of brief novels.

brettsavory.u says to (02:03): Then I did the full-length version of THE DISTANCE TRAVELLED, which was about 80K. Oh, wait, sorry, got my Ks mixed up. IAD was 62K when I was finished with it, I think! It was originally about 78K.

brettsavory.u says to (02:03): Anyway, did some more shorties in between the novels, but yeah, definitely had to gain confidence to work up to the longer legnths.

brettsavory.u says to (02:04): As for advice?

brettsavory.u says to (02:05): I'd say to wait till you have an idea that will genuinely fill a novel-length work, rather than trying to pad something out to be bigger than it shoold be. The reader can always tell. If you don't have your novel idea, wait for it. Oh, and make sure it's an idea that you're going to stay interested in for draft after draft after draft after draft. . . .

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:06): How many drafts do you usually suffer through?

brettsavory.u says to (02:07): Depends, but both my novels so far, I'd say they went through around 6 or 7 drafts, all told. That's including once an editor gets their hands on them.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:07): that's a little daunting

brettsavory.u says to (02:07): Some people might do less, but I'm an editor by profession, so I'm a stickler. Cut, cut, cut!!

brettsavory.u says to (02:08): That's the other thing. Cut ruthlessly. And say what you need to in as few words as possible. Trim the fat, even when you don't think it's fat. At least for me, I love skinny books that don't fuck around with window dressing.

petralee.u says to (02:09): I have a follow up question to that.

ELWilliams.u says (02:09): Go ahead, Petra.

brettsavory.u says to (02:09): Yeah, shoot, Petra.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:10): I think Petra must be asking her question aloud instead of typing it

kdespins.u says to (02:11): she's speaking to the chat again?

petralee.u says to (02:11): Brett, as far as your advice for waiting until you have a novel-lenght idea goes, I have to say that I found myself running into that same situation myself. My question is have you ever found yourself halfway through a novel, you have your novel length idea, but it's not holding you the way it should.?

petralee.u says to (02:11): You have the whole idea, but it's just not keeping you interested.

brettsavory.u says to (02:13): Luckily, I havcen't had that happen yet, but I've only done two books. I have three more on the go and I still am really interested in them, so I guess I'm fortunate. I know of other writers who've had that happen, though. Probably sucks balls.

kdespins.u says to (02:17): Some writers start with a character. Some start with a situation. Some anal writers outline the whole thing before writing a single word. What’s your process for writing a story?

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:18): I'm sorry, but did Kim just say anal? I'll be leaving the chat now.

kdespins.u says to (02:18): ha!

kdespins.u says to (02:18): I did have you in mind, Kurt...

brettsavory.u says to (02:19): Ha! I spit on those anal writers! I mean, "I don't do things that way." Ahem. What I mean to say is, I'm one of those guys who gets the inkling of an idea, possibly one line, then I start writing a story. I write line to line. Can'

brettsavory.u says to (02:19): t abide that outline shit. The only time I do that is when I'm trying to sell it on a partial, so my three new ones have outlines, but I fully intend to stray from said outlines once they get bought, which I'm obviously hoping for. Heh.
brettsavory.u says to (02:20): DISTANCE and IAD, though: No outline. Just wrote the fuckers, LIKE A MAN.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:20): LOL

kdespins.u says to (02:20): If only we all wrote like men...

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:20): I'm such an outlining pussy.

brettsavory.u says to (02:20): I go back, though, and massage shit when I'm done and even whilst I'm writing them.

brettsavory.u says to (02:21): Short stories, though, even more so. I just dive right in. That's why a lot of my shit ends ambiguously. People think it's artsy, but I've actually just fucked myself in the narrative.

petralee.u says to (02:24): You've stated that your style of writing is to edit as you go - I've always knee-jerk to that but have to try hard to just finish it first. many writers swear on keeping the editor away while the writer's at play, so to speak. does it just depend on the writer and how best he/she works?


brettsavory.u says to (02:26): Definitely writer-dependent. Those without confidence just batter a pile of shit onto the page, then go back and fuck with it; those with MANLY SOULS edit as they go, fully aware of their narrative and in total control of their shit. Even when they don't know where their shit is headed.

brettsavory.u says to (02:26): *laughs* Manly souls. That's good.

petralee.u says to (02:27): see that';s me!! Not manly, but controlled!!!

brettsavory.u says to (02:27): I can't stand just leaving crap on the page. It goes against every instinct I have.

petralee.u says to (02:27): Yeah, I agree...the cringe factor!

brettsavory.u says to (02:27): Must edit while I write. Must edit while I write.

brettsavory.u says to (02:28): Also: when you go back and try to figure out all teh crap that just spilled out of your head, isn't it a bitch to trying to figure out what the fuck you were trying to say in the first place? I would think so.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:28): Would you mind talking a little about breaking rules in fiction? I've heard the cliche (as I'm sure you have too) that you've got to master a rule to successfully break a rule. I bring this up because I noticed you are not afraid to break rules in your short fiction. Talk a little about how you know when to break the rules and when to follow them

petralee.u says to (02:28): YES! exactly.

brettsavory.u says to (02:30): I hate conventions, so I just try to write without it. I've read a decent amount in the genre, but not so much that I start copying other people's shit. That's one danger of following that axiom: Read everything you possibly can! Fuck that, read just enough so that you know what you're doing, then write with your OWN VOICE.

brettsavory.u says to (02:31): That's the most important thing, I think. As for breaking rules, fuck yeah, do that shit. Don't give me anice, tidy resolution. I don't want to have the standard love affair, the buddy relationship, the bullshit setting up and scenery crap. Just dump me into the story with your characters and let me figure shit out as though I was actually

brettsavory.u says to (02:31): THERE, experiencing the events with them, you know?

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:31): yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

brettsavory.u says to (02:31): I like stories with no discernible ending. I hate tidy wrap-ups.

ELWilliams.u says (02:32): Follow-ups?

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:32): Kurt is only speaking to me tonight

petralee.u says to (02:32): he's loving on John right now.

brettsavory.u says to (02:32): Kurt has a man-crush!

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:32): on Petra.

brettsavory.u says to (02:32): Oh, snap!

petralee.u says to (02:33): That's really not funny at all you bastards.

brettsavory.u says to (02:33): Hey, you guys are fun. I'm hanging out here all day from now on. Fuck writing and publishing!

ELWilliams.u says (02:34): Thanks, Brett. We are fun. Except Petra.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:34): Hola, all...if I disappear soon it's only cuz I passed two funnel clowds on the way in

brettsavory.u says to (02:34): What up, Sam? Do you have a man-crush on Mantooth, too?

petralee.u says to (02:34): ESPECIALLY PETRA

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:34): who's petra?

petralee.u says to (02:34): I give up

brettsavory.u says to (02:34): Man, Petra sure takes a beating in here. She probably logs off and cries herself to sleep after these chat sessions, you heartless fucks.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:35): I hope you don't think I'm belaboring the point, but specifically a question we've discussed as a group is the pov switch. Everybody says it's a no-no and yet, authors pull it off all the time, especially in novels, but sometimes in short fiction too. Thoughts?

brettsavory.u says to (02:36): I'm no stickler for POV shifts. If it makes sense for the story and doesn't confuse the almighty fuck out of the reader, do it.

petralee.u says to (02:36): YES!

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:36): thanks, Brett. I'll let somebody else talk now

brettsavory.u says to (02:36): What will happen now is one of you will write a story with POV shifts, send it to ChiZine, and one of my editors will bounce your ass for it. Ha! Burn.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:37): YES

petralee.u says to (02:37): No, none of us write with pov shifts

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:37): yeah, because like anything else you've got to make it work

brettsavory.u says to (02:37): Exactly. Anyone read Stewart O'Nan's A PRAYER FOR THE DYING?

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:37): Yes

brettsavory.u says to (02:37): Second-person POV, but he rocks the FUCK out of it. Couldn't have been told in any other voice.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:37): Great book

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:38): I now have a man-crush on Brett for loving APFTDying

brettsavory.u says to (02:38): Also: Damn short. Another guy who kills. And who blurbed my work. Oh, sorry, did I drop that name? Here, let me pick it up.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:38): I'll check it out. I loved The Night Country

ELWilliams.u says (02:38): I guess it's my turn to ask a question. Brett, why do I keep getting rejected by Chizine?

ELWilliams.u says (02:38): Kidding

petralee.u says to (02:38): LOL!

ELWilliams.u says (02:38): A lot of people who write and edit seem to have a tough time balancing between the two and end up becoming one or the other. Has it been difficult for you to balance both? If so, what have you done to keep your sanity?

brettsavory.u says to (02:39): I'm currentlyu reading THE NIGHT COUNTRY. Check out all the fucking POV shifts in that novel!! Amazing. Tonnes of them, yet he kills it. In the right hands, it works.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:40): yeah, it is amazing. I'll go back and look at the POV again since it's been a few years. Thanks


brettsavory.u says to (02:41): I balance writing and editing—especially having started up CZP (http://chizinepub.com)—by doing mostly editing. Not as much writing, though I'm hoping to get back to it soon. As for keeping sane, I have a staff of millions. Or 16. Whichever comes first.

brettsavory.u says to (02:42): Sorry, 17. Kurt is a new book reviewer for me.

petralee.u says to (02:43): There seems to be the opinion of many people recently, that the future of publishing is moving away from print and into the world of web. Many people take that opinion and assume that because print publishing is moving in a downward spiral, so is publishing as a whole. I completely disagree with this, I think there are many fanatatics of the written page who would never let that happen. what are your thoughts on this?

brettsavory.u says to (02:45): I agree completely. Books will never die. You'll never get the people who love the tactile parts of reading to swicth to e-stuff. They might supplement with it, but books will never die. And reading, in general, whether e or print, will always be around, in some form or other. Might decline, might even become a small cult or something

brettsavory.u says to (02:45): but it will always survive, I think.

kdespins.u says to (02:46): So I should hang on to my bookshelves? Would you say the same about magazines?

brettsavory.u says to (02:46): You know who else kills short books? Chuck Palahniuk. I want to have his babies.

petralee.u says to (02:46): Yes, I agree as well. I just keep thinking of Farenheit 451 whenever I think about the state of affairs. And brett - I don't think you can....

petralee.u says to (02:46): At least with Chuck

brettsavory.u says to (02:46): I think magazines might eventually die out. They hold no real attraction for me. Too glossy. I love matte. MATTE. MATTE. Just the word gives me a boner.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:51): Brett, could you please explain to us how the Chizine slush works? Do you have a team of editors? Do you have the final say? And what about the major house that wants to buy IN AND DOWN?

brettsavory.u says to (02:51): My agent doesn't want me to kill them all in their sleep, but I told her I'd only need to kill a COUPLE and they'd pay attention.

brettsavory.u says to (02:52): Okay, ChiZine . . .

brettsavory.u says to (02:54): Submissions come in, I get them, then I dole them out to Hannah Bowen, Mike Marano, and Paul Tremblay. They read them, then they pass up to me the ones they think merit a look. I read those ones, then, if I agree, I keep them in a maybe pile. At the end of the reading period . . .

brettsavory.u says to (02:54): I go through the maybe pile and pick the best 10,000 words. Sometimes I buy multiple issues at once if it's really a banner reading period.

brettsavory.u says to (02:55): Sorry, fell back into 2006 there. Not Paul anymore! Now it's Gord Zajac.

brettsavory.u says to (02:55): Paul is all fancy and scoring book deals with Henry Holt and such. What a dick!! ;-)

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:56): Don't try to cover up, man. We know he paid you to win the fucking contest this year. Fess up!

brettsavory.u says to (02:56): Our rejection rate is something like 98%, and it's in Duotropes top 5 toughest markets to crack.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:56): then what did you do to win last year?

brettsavory.u says to (02:57): Dude is crazy good. It was totally anonymous. Honest! But I have to say I'm pretty proud of him. He did it in 2002, as well, and that's when I hired him to be a fiction editor, which he was for about four years.

brettsavory.u says to (02:57): Fucker can WRITE like a son of a bitch. Can't wait for his Holt novel THE LITTLE SLEEP.
Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (02:57): Paul is crazy good, and a good guy. And it's obvious you have a man-crush on him.

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:57): I've got a question about Chizine. In the guidelines, you are deliciously brief: dark and well written, I think they read. I've been rejected (ahem) many times over the years, and I think I've noticed a trend. (I am also basing this on the stories I've read at Chizine)

JohnMantooth.u says to (02:58): Maybe you can confirm it for me or tell me I'm full of shit, but I think implicit in the term "dark" is the idea that the stories should have a supernatural or slipstream element. In other words, should I hold off on submitting my dark southern noir tale or give you a try? Thanks.

brettsavory.u says to (02:58): He's 6' 4" of pure manliness.

brettsavory.u says to (02:59): No, don't hold off on trying us with anything dark and well-written. There's no conscious trend on my part to only select supernatural or slipstreamed submissions. I always like seeing your manly teeth drop into my inbox, brother. Keep 'em coming! A guy who finally cracked us . . .

brettsavory.u says to (03:01): is Jeremy Shipp. He submitted to us for years and years, then finally one day, he sent me a fucking cracker of a story, and I couldn't believe it was the same guy.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:01): "Camp", right? Great story.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:01): Okay, thanks Brett. I'm sure i'll send something fairly soon.

petralee.u says to (03:01): Jeremy Shipp? I read that! Was a great story!

brettsavory.u says to (03:02): You know who else submitted to us about 7 times and never sold us anything? The ubiquitous Brian Keene. We joke about it on panels together sometimes. No matter how many hits he'd bring to ChiZine, Keene just doesn't write ChiZIne stories. And he knows it.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:02): I apologize if I repeat anything...I have no access to the history. I did have several questions, but farmed them out to some of the others in the group when I thought I wasn't going to make it...so if you got a really great question, just assume it was from me...

petralee.u says to (03:02): Now that's funny!

kdespins.u says to (03:03): ask the one you farmed to me; that hasn't come up yet

brettsavory.u says to (03:03): They've all been shit! *laughs* Kidding.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:03): I can see the Keene thing. Totally

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:03): But, I am curious what exactly the tie-in is between Leisure and ChiZine

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:03): they must not have used my questions

ELWilliams.u says (03:03): Not this one.

brettsavory.u says to (03:04): Yeah, with ChiZine, in general, there needs to be a literary flavour to it. Not always, but nearly always. And go for weird/surreal and with resonance. Don't explain everything to me. I hate that most.

brettsavory.u says to (03:04): Okay, Leisure. . .

petralee.u says to (03:05): I feel like an ass saying this -

brettsavory.u says to (03:05): I was sick of hunting down and selling banner ads to small presses to pay 1 cent per word, so I got the idea to hit up Don at Leisure. The same year we won the Stoker, we got the sponsorship (but it was before the win, so Don wasn't swayed by that) . . .

petralee.u says to (03:06): but I really need to go. I am just got a call from home. Brett, it was so GREAT chatting with you! Thanks for all of your insight into writing/editing. And I hope we get to hear from you again!

brettsavory.u says to (03:06): Basically, they have zero editorial control, but we make them banner ads to run on our site and they send me cheques to pay the writer. Simple arrangement. And one we've had for over 7 years now. We barely have anything in common, regarding content, but we both publish "dark" stories, so that's the connections.

petralee.u says to (03:06): Sorry for jumping in.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:07): bye, Petra. And congrats again

brettsavory.u says to (03:07): Good to e-meet you, Perta! Send me an email once you're done DISTANCE! Cheers!

brettsavory.u says to (03:07): Not Perta.

petralee.u says to (03:07): Thanks John! Thanks everyone. Sorry to leave so abrubtly. And I'll send you an email as soon as I finish it!

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:07): Yes, congrats again Petra. We love you and you suck.

kdespins.u says to (03:08): Can you settle an argument among us? Is it pronounced Chee-zine or Chai-zine? Yes, the winners will taunt the losers.

brettsavory.u says to (03:09): Chee-zeen.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:09): NOOOO!

ELWilliams.u says (03:09): YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kdespins.u says to (03:09): ha! I was right!

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:09): Remove my story from your site!

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:09): FUCK.

kdespins.u says to (03:09): Sorry Kurt Deeenan

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:09): HA!

ELWilliams.u says (03:09): We had an hour long debate about this at WHC. Shit you not.

brettsavory.u says to (03:09): Technically, it should be Kee-zeen, it's true, but it just sounds weird.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:09): Yeah, I'm not submitting anymore

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:09): we're intellectuals

kdespins.u says to (03:09): so it's italian?

brettsavory.u says to (03:10): Chiaroscuro. Kee-ar-oh-skyoo-oh.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:10): Hell, I can't even pronounce Chiaruousosuosus or whatever that damn word is. My art teacher friend tutored me and I still couldn't do it.

ELWilliams.u says (03:10): I've finally beat Kurt at something.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:10): I actually have one more question, if I may... but only if somebody else doesn't have something, as i've already asked a lot

brettsavory.u says to (03:11): Yep, Italian. Named after the painting style made famous by Caravaggio.

kdespins.u says to (03:11):
I have one Sam question after John, unless Sam wants to ask it.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:11): It sounds better coming from you

brettsavory.u says to (03:11): Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-zeeeeeeeeeeen. Don't mind me, just entertaining myself.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:11): On the HWA message boards , I have seen many of the pros denouncing markets that do not pay professional rates. How do you feel about this? More to the point, are there any magazines out there that you feel merit a submission simply because of the quality and the content of the magazine? And if so, which ones? Thanks.

kdespins.u says to (03:11): I'll try to use an accent then

brettsavory.u says to (03:12): Oh, and Peter Crowther came up with the name. Damn, there goes another name dropped on the floor. . . . Can someone pick those up for me after I leave? Thanks.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:13): Only if I can use them later

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:13): I'll wash them first

brettsavory.u says to (03:14): I'm in that elitist camp that thinks you should get fucking paid. Then again, paying 7 cents a word, I can be in that camp somewhat comfortably. A very few 'zines can pull off the "prestige" thing. Maybe Lady Churchill's and a few others, but not many at all. I think when you're starting out, sure, sell your shit for beans to build confidence

brettsavory.u says to (03:14): but then start building up to getting actual money. The better markets pay the dough.

kdespins.u says to (03:15): You most likely see a lot of really good stories that you reject in favor of the professional-level stories you publish in ChiZine. In general, what do you feel is the most common difference between a really good story and a professional story? Any dos and don'ts for making a story more in the professional vein?

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:15): Good question, Kim.

ELWilliams.u says (03:15): Or Sam

kdespins.u says to (03:15): Sam

brettsavory.u says to (03:17): I can only speak for ChiZine and my own tastes, but I would say don't do a bunch of character-development at the start of your story. Start with action. Always dump the reader in head-first, and THEN pull back and start peeling away the mystery like an onion. Don't over-explain shit. Don't try to impress with flowery language. Some

brettsavory.u says to (03:19): nice turns of phrase won't go unnoticed and tend to elevate the piece, but laying on the purple prose will make me snore. FUCKING SNORE, YA HEAR ME? Be subtle or harsh, as needed, not just becvause that's your "style" or some shit. Show dynamics in writing, in sentence structure. Develop an ear for true dialogue. Keep it

brettsavory.u says to (03:20): sparse. Make people talk how they would REALLY talk in a given situation. And resonance. Leave enough unexplained at the end of the story that I'm left thinking about it for days afterward. A tall order, but that's what's needed.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:20): Great answer, Brett.

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:21): That's a question I've emailed countless "pros" before, and that is the best answer I've read.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:21): That must have been a great question

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:21): So you've got that going for you.

brettsavory.u says to (03:21): Cool, man, thanks. :-)

ELWilliams.u says (03:22): Well, if no one else has anything...Brett, is there anything you want to talk about, throw out there, rant over?

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:23): Yeah, Brett, feel free to pimp yourself as much as you'd like.


brettsavory.u says to (03:24): OK, well you can go to brettsavory.com and learn all kinds of shit about me and my work. Do it, but many things. Buy the CZP titles!


brettsavory.u says to (03:25): Okay, sorry, Kurt, um, yeah, there're a couple of comic book things kind of in the works, but nothing close to completion.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:26): I've got a follow up to that then

brettsavory.u says to (03:26): One is an adaptation of DISTANCE with Homeros Gilani. The other is an adaptation of "The Time Between Lights" from my collection. That one's with Eric Orchard. Great artist from out east here in Canada.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:27): How do you even get started in comic books...I've kind of got this world-building thing going on right now that I think would be even better that way...Although apparently ChiZine didn't think so much of it as one of the stories from it didn't even crack the top fifteen in the contest

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:27): But my analyst is making a killing off that, so somebody's happy

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:28): do you sense the bitterness here, Brett? lol

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:28): Sam's on pain meds

kdespins.u says to (03:28): he's sensitive, I tell you

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:28): he's got mommy parts

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:28): and old...I'm entitled to be bitter...and keep of my fucking lawn

ELWilliams.u says (03:28): off?

ELWilliams.u says (03:30): follow-up?

brettsavory.u says to (03:30): I got yer follow-up right here, Williams!

ELWilliams.u says (03:30): That's what he said.
ELWilliams.u says (03:31): Well, this seems to have fizzled out

ELWilliams.u says (03:31): anything

ELWilliams.u says (03:31): anyone

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:31): I'm good.

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:31): I really can't read any of this through the tears anymore

kdespins.u says to (03:31): fizzled or not, I thought it was superb

ELWilliams.u says (03:31): Oh, it was great

ELWilliams.u says (03:31): And I like seeing Sam cry

Kurt Dinan1.shocklinesforum says to (03:31): Great job, Brett. I doubt any of our other chats will be this loose

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:31): I appreciate the time and openness, Brett

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:32): Kim likes making Sam cry

kdespins.u says to (03:32): it's just so easy

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:32): Thanks for answering our questions

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:32): Thank you Brett...I apologize for being late

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:32): and putting up with out antics

Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:32): that's what he said

kdespins.u says to (03:32): Thanks for all the thoughtful answers

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:32): our

ELWilliams.u says (03:32): Thanks Brett.

ELWilliams.u says (03:32): Oh, and if you want to come back for the Ramsey Campbell chat, let us know.

brettsavory.u says to (03:33): Cheers, all. Thanks for having me, and I hope you and your significant others can all deal with the man-crushes you've developed over the past hour or so. Oo! Yes, I want to come for the Campbell chat. I want to see Ramsey type like Ozzy.

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:33): And one more question. Would you mind if I posted some excerpts from this on my blog?

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:33): If you'd rather me not, I understand

JohnMantooth.u says to (03:34): as it was kind of wild and wooly in here

brettsavory.u says to (03:34): Have at 'er, man. No problem. I have nothing to hide.

Coming soon from Doorways Publishing is Sam W. Anderson's collection, POSTCARDS FROM PURGATORY - Twelve stories and a special introduction from Thomas Tessier.

Sneak preview of the fiction here:
here